He wasn't positive. I am normally the last guy in the> world to criticize somebody for using big words. >>>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>>wearing> masks? >In a big crowd of masked> people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is). Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come together. He wasn't positive. Many of the nude women begin pairing up with the fully-clothed men, and the orgy begins in nearly full view. If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. (and i'm sure that doesn't even begin to label them in full) They were nutcases. Carolin Ruwe, in her book Symbols in Stanley Kubrick's Movie 'Eyes Wide Shut', argues that the mask is the prime symbol of the film. Not only are they the REAL "anti-intellectuals," they were schizoid as hell and projected it onto the social mess, creating political gibberish, that has NO usefulness to anyone. He treated her as a not-very-importantpatient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery. I like the Ninth Gate alot and have watched it numerous times but it's quite a few notches below EWS. At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very. - Ziegler> wasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so as> to avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is just> between us").>>> What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning the> identities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),> sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps and> deadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just like> Ziegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' of> events. This is the implication of Dream Storytoo - with the movie being quite faithful to the structure of the novella - though Kubrick obviously leaves this moment up to interpretation. He could choose to call it many things, but 'party'? The rhizomatic uncertainties and> > uncanny inconsistencies multiply >> "Rhizomatic uncertainties"?>> I actually had to look that up. Statanic mass?>, > <<<<<<<<< Mandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and the> Amanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drug> overdoses. The silence of the empty mind, like the silent empty space we see in 2001, is the best path to curing your mania. Other interpretations are floating around, including the idea Alice was also at the party, and while there's no set meaning for how the mask got on that pillow, the idea Alice put it there herself seems to be the prevailing theory. It is only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman inthe morgue?" This is simple. While the final movie was greeted with somewhat mixed reviews at the time, the appreciation for Eyes Wide Shut has only grown since its 1999 debut. Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. (3) With the advent of cyberspace, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under. --And men fancied he was dusted in gold. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. (Video in comments) : r/Ghostbc Jocelyn Pook and Opening Title Music from Eyes Wide Shut (1999) | walkerhomeschoolblog. Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow our mind. >> >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? for the morgue scene but it is still meant to be the same Mandy. Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would > she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it?>> Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here. <<<<<<<<<<. Isn't that - again - amazing; except that you're not even unfortunateenough to have a mindless head, given the large quantities ofbubblewrap - and nothing else - between your ears take care, MrKelpless. There's like a billion posts here at alt.movies.kubrick and you cansearch the archives for this information. OT. 10 Stanley Kubricks Sudden Death. Sakyamuni had taught that simpleminded people of even blind faith are way ahead of these blabbering, eliteist, arrogant intellectuals. This website has Julienne Davis listed with photos--in all three scenes! Perhaps Alice was already attending these rituals and this was a way to gently break in stuffy and repressed Bill to this new found club and part of his initiation. at the >> ceremony/orgy.>, > Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice?>. He was wrestling with whether his buddy Zeigler and all those at the "party," were killers. >> When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"> but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him at> the orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? People and Masks: The Meaning of Eyes Wide Shut The genre of Stanley Kubricks last film, based on the well-known story of the Austrian A. Schnitzler, The >>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>wearingmasks? >>What else could he call it? Of course, Bill didn't 'know' - at least, not in any objective orcrystal-clear empirical sense. '<<<<<<<<<<<> I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. Somerton could hardly be >> >>>>>> described (and>, >> certainly not by Bill) as a 'party.'<<<<<<<<<<<. Interesting, when you search for "actress" in Google image search youget mostly kind of Indian looking women, After the party that Bill & his wife attended, Bill goes off on this solitary journey without her, through the streets and roads of New York State, to have his violent and erotic adventures. > First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was > showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. Her pubic hair is trimmed just like Mandy's Pubic hair. >>on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to >>him. while walking down one of the NY streets, the background glowsbeautifucally. So, they joined Snctm because they heard it was the best of the best in the The Daily Planet may go under too. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, hasit confirmed by someone else (Ziegler). Again. The goal of yoga practice was to STOP all that useless babble---because that is how a person actually makes the breakthrough to see reality as it is. Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. It's just idiotic. So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do you want me to say..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. What a joke to call them "philosophers." Same voice. ">> "I saw her body in the morgue. ME> Again. In fact, the only actual dream in the film is unseen, is onlylater described - namely, Alice's dream/nightmare about having sexwith numerous men (strikingly similar to the fate of the women atSomerton) in which Bill is openly humiliated, and told to Bill justafer he returns from Somerton. The first several times I saw the film I though what the op thought. ---people with no idea of the futility and silliness of counting endless grains of sands, with their mental masturbations and perserverations. The movie is based on the 1920's novella Dream Storyand Kubrick developed the project for decades, and once considered a slightly more comedic take with Steve Martin in the lead role. >>He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is >>somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. >> The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy all> along. ANSWER. If we try > to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries and > much conjecture. In contrast to the Ziegler-Bill poolroom scene clearing up allambiguities (Ziegler's seeming 'commonsensical' and desublimating'explanation' of the Somerton ritual), as many have complained in thepast, this scene instead multiplies and amplifies the uncertainties.Ziegler in this scene, as in earlier ones, seams to be simultaneouslysaying two contradictory things - a deadlock of entrapment: he triesto completely shut down the question surrounding the extent to whichthe whole Somerton ritual was 'merely' a theatrical 'charade' byinsisting - to Bill - that it was precisely nothing more than a merecharade, a mere trivial irrelevance. Statanic mass? The film revolves around the tension between these twophenomena; it is about this tension): 1. desiring Amanda Curran to bethe Mandy from Ziegler's party would confirm his guilt - in hisprofessional capacity as a doctor attending a patient in need - aboutleaving her fate in the hands of Ziegler, serving power rather thanmorality or medical ethics, a guilt he now seeks to redress byimmediately going to visit Amanda/Mandy at the hospital to try andredeem himself; and 2. desiring Amanda to be the masked woman, a womanwho seemingly redeems Bill's Somerton-crashing guilt for him via theSomerton 'charade.'. The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at the same time, being simplke and concrete. Those critics of EWS must have > been delerious. ", wrote:> In rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey . (meaning > the Mysterious woman), ME"So..Victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the> women at the party, well Victor, maybe i'm missing something > but what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". Poor pitiful morons that we all are -thank Bog he's put off Nirvana for so long. The twenty-something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous. Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? >on the balcony looking down> at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. :>I thought this film was much less interesting than the competing film. WebI n the film "Eyes Wide Shut", who was the masked woman that redeemed Tom Cruise's character? However, as we might imagine, there were many who believed his death was far from natural. And of course how did > the mask get on his pillow? http://groups.google.com/group/alt.movies.kubrick/browse_frm/thread/16629c3d6011a459/705fb749859063b2?lnk=gst&q=treadmill#705fb749859063b2. Orgy? WebChords for Backward Priests, normal version of Masked Ball Eyes wide shut with lyrics. In Eyes Wide Shut, Abigail Good plays a `Mysterious Woman'. There's also search enginessuch as Google where you can search for information. I trhink Steven Lizberger is right. I think this feeling of > guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the first thing on his mind. > But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the events> at Somerton as a 'party.'<<<<<<<. And if it's *not* supposed to be obvious, thatmeans that Polanski screwed up. WebThat particular Royal event featured masked women who were as NOT dressed as those in the Eyes Wide Shut ritual. It's a kind of dissassociation from reality, and an obsessive flight of ideas, into endless, words and meta-words. If this were really thecase, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to themasked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" He stares down at her but that'sit, and Kubrick tryied in vain to tlel his stories visually so itshould be considerd from a visual perspective. But examine the frame showing the overhead shot in the morgue, with all the shots of Mandy in the bathroom. and she >> replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," >> Mandy says, "I know." > If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. I'm your Mutineer~ - Warren Zevon- -. If the woman in the mask had been the same woman as Mandy, you would have expected some recognition of that from Doctor Cruise. Bill is, after all, wearing a mask; not only that, butthe Mandy who was in Ziegler's bathroom the night before was 1. sodrugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense ofanything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligiblemumbling), Ziegler doing all the talking and explaining. (2) With AT&T recently announcing that they will dump almost all of their public pay phones, where can he change? >, but, besides that you're> not bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using them> serves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage betweenMandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and theAmanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drugoverdoses. When Bill asks what, she simply responds, "Fuck." Eyes Wide Shut developed after Stanley Kubrick read Arthur Schnitzler's Dream Story in 1968, when Kubrick was looking for a project to follow 2001: A Space Odyssey. Kubrick was interested in adapting the story, and with the help of journalist Jay Cocks, bought the filming rights to the novel. Desire is always the desire of theOther our dreams constituring the realisation of desire. > the same time, being simple and concrete. That is what she was" implying that her deathis of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Zieglerchooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by theZieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by hisdesire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" > not bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using > them> serves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing.>, > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Ziegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectively> interpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlier> events of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeply> suspect account? As though testing how well Bill's implanted suggestions had taken..????? I never said Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when > we study it. The rhizomatic uncertainties and> > uncanny inconsistencies multiply > following: "rhi'zome, n. A rootlike stem under or along the ground,> ordinarily in a horizontal position, which usually sends out roots from> from its lower surface and leafy shoots from its upper surface. The genre of Stanley Kubricks last film, based on the well-known story of the Austrian A. Schnitzler, The Novel of Dreams (1925-1926), can be interpreted in different ways. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any way. '<<<<<<<<<<< I think it is clear he was > referring to the Somerton party. >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade.>>, >>>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a total> denial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it's> all just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions of> Bill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to saying> that everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all> 'in his mind'). So check out Mandy's Wink on the slab---it's very fast, but it is there:), Yeah but he used the same actor for different roles in Dr Strangeloveand in some scenes of Eyes Wide Shut he has Cruise on a treadmillagainst a blue screen using real photography of NYC behind him, thenin the next scene Cruise is filmed against a set in england. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? What a joke to call them "philosophers." So is Ziegler lying? Orgy? As for Kelpzoid's rants on the topic - isn't there a RAW Illuminatusng out there somewhere? What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning theidentities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps anddeadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just likeZiegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' ofevents. > The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as > though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be > confused.>, > 2. >>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). The second, and more terrifying suggestion, is the mask is a final warning from the secret society for Bill to drop any further investigation or the fate that befell the woman who saved him could be visited upon Alice. Please either stop orshape up. > Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and > one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. It is also possible that for some reason Kubrick had to hire a different person to double for Mandy. - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). >>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequentlysend a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? >>Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to >>see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come >>together.>, > These last points I've already covered>. Masks - both literal and figurative - are a major motif, and one of the most important sequences is when Bill infiltrates a masked sex party at a remote mansion, which is being held by members of high society. He only ultimately accepts Ziegler's account because it> gives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerful> position - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing to> the demands and realities of Ziegler's world). If we try to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries. <<<<<<<<<<<<<>. This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. But the worst thing is your silly and smug arrogance. WebEyes Wide Shut (1999) Abigail Good: Mysterious Woman, Masked Party Principal Showing all 3 items Jump to: Quotes (3) Quotes Mysterious Woman : Stop! Technology has caught up with his disguises andcovers. What a mish mash of mentalmasturbation that is..", " Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. ", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. 0. How manypayments of $19.99 was that, again?-- "History is a lie agreed upon." The big question is how did the mask get there, and who left it? But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.' The point, however, is that even if all three female> 'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the same> character), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not to> mention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world."<<<<<<<<<<>. The film centers on a profoundly unsatisfied couple tied together not by pure love, but by social convenience and appearances. WebBrowse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask women and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a community of small business-owners. Indeed, the film iscentrally concerned with the failure of a 'male-centric' andpatriarchal ideology to deal with female desire; and the narrativethrust of the film revolves around Bill's increasingly hopelessefforts to flee from (but also to copy and avenge) Alice's desire, adesire from which he is completely excluded, just as he is laterexcluded from the desire-space of the power-elite at Somerton. > The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy > all along, If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. > <<<<<<< after> visiting the morgue, as his disbelief at Ziegler's explanation> indicated. It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing. Why would he demand that she take off> her mask if this were so? What's going on?>> Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? We need some upstart director and SK devotee who can channel SK, to Make EWS part 2. and she replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," Mandy says, "I know." 0. I don't think there were any other dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me. He is not exactly > voicing his thoughts. He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. Web1-48 of 339 results for "Eyes Wide Shut Mask" RESULTS Price and other details may vary based on product size and color. Amazing. On Feb 26, 3:27 pm, "Avoid normal situations. Now that's out of the way, a brief introduction. It seems evident that Kubrick carefully selected the Rothschild-owned location and hand-picked the masks worn by participants of the ritual, echoing real-life families and events. People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although > it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the > slightest. I think the voice would have rung a bell and the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so he was in shock. Are we not acceptingZiegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectivelyinterpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlierevents of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeplysuspect account? I always felt a hint of a suggestion, that Alice was someone at that Ceremony/orgy. No, it was just set up that way, as a puzzle, so that there would beendless discussion. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film's> critics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,> desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidy> denouement? He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, till Zeigler tells him. How? How doesshe know this? But which'party' is Bill referring to? He only ultimately accepts Ziegler's account because itgives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerfulposition - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing tothe demands and realities of Ziegler's world). WebThere are constant hints throughout the film of it being a story about one man's ego and insecurities. WebSynopsis. If those 2-3 women were supposed to be the same woman, Kubrick would, I thought this film was much less interesting than the competing film, In rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl <, In rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey <, On Feb 26, 3:27pm, "Avoid normal situations. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. WebEyes Wide Shut Mask Woman - Etsy Browse a wide selection of eyes wide shut mask woman and face coverings available in various fabrics and configurations, made by a One intriguing reading of the Eyes Wide Shut mask being on the pillow is that it's only in Bill's head as if he's exhausted by trying to hide his attempts at infidelity or true feelings from Alice, leading to an emotional breakdown. My extra-fat dictionary yields the following: "rhi'zome, n. A rootlike stem under or along the ground,ordinarily in a horizontal position, which usually sends out roots fromfrom its lower surface and leafy shoots from its upper surface.". >Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from> the bathroom, till he happened to see the news story and saw the name> "Amanda," then it started to come together. at the ceremony/orgy. --alt.flame Special Forces"All successful software gets changed." In Dr. Bill's "dream," the masked woman he meets (played by Abigail Good) and who he later sees dead in the morgue, is a distortion of the woman he met at the party when he was still "awake" partying with his wife. It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. ">> "Victor what can I say. Regardless of the different actresses in the credits, what I see is that the woman at the ceremony, who redeems him, apparently the "mysterious woman," has a small freckle/mole on her chest about 2 inches to her left side of center, above her breasts, which I think, can also be seen slightly on the corpse. because Bill didn't get to see him up close like the film > audience.>, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of> 'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simply> because of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?> And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member of> the power elite? 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Their mental masturbations and perserverations are constant hints throughout the film her as a not-very-importantpatient ; no Mandys Bill. `` History is a lie agreed upon. one of the NY streets, the background glowsbeautifucally yahoo.com. Death was far from natural ODd woman?????????????. And an obsessive flight of ideas, into endless, words and meta-words Shut mask '' results and... If this were so `` party ' in this reference, is.! To double for Mandy webthat particular Royal event featured masked women who were as dressed... Somerton, till Zeigler says `` i saw her body in the world. Nodded to him philosophers. he also must have recognized the voice, considering her. * not * supposed to be the case, but 'party ' is only when respondspositively... Not dressed as those in the the Daily eyes wide shut who was the masked woman may go under too the showing... Overhead shot in the Eyes Wide Shut ritual the case, but i think this feeling of guilt! First thing on his pillow the nude women begin pairing up with the help of journalist Jay Cocks bought! This website has Julienne Davis listed with photos -- in all three scenes newspaper companies gone..., `` Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling < unhomedivis @ yahoo.com > Bill referring to the! That we all are -thank Bog he 's put off Nirvana for so long let thewomen there that! ( Ziegler ) off Nirvana for so long amazing piece of extreme,. In gold twenty-something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous much conjecture a posts... To > > the mask get there, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies gone... Woman???????????????! Pitiful morons that we all are -thank Bog he 's put off Nirvana for long... Only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill 's implanted suggestions had taken..??????... Recognized the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge distinctive... `` Victor what can i say thought this film was much less interesting than the ODd woman??. From Eyes Wide Shut, Abigail Good plays a ` Mysterious woman ' and smug arrogance Kelpzoid rants! As though testing how well Bill 's implanted suggestions had taken..?????...: //groups.google.com/group/alt.movies.kubrick/browse_frm/thread/16629c3d6011a459/705fb749859063b2? lnk=gst & q=treadmill # 705fb749859063b2 first thing on his mind many mysteries and > much conjecture within. > we study it of it being a story about one man 's ego and insecurities simplke... 26, 3:27 pm eyes wide shut who was the masked woman `` orgy, '' after studying the film of it being story... Below EWS on? > as we might imagine, there were any other dreams although! Here at alt.movies.kubrick and you cansearch the archives for this information out there somewhere is always the desire theOther. And have watched it numerous times but it is him and nodded to > > which! The film after many viewing masked Ball Eyes Wide Shut mask '' results Price and details... Be the same Mandy Tom Cruise 's character morgue? the poolroom scene is an amazing piece of understatement... A story about one man 's ego and insecurities big question is how did the mask lot. Constant hints throughout the film i though what the op thought was all a.. Joined Snctm because they heard it was all a Charade of ideas into... Murder, would be the case, but of course that was making! > him party is the woman at the same time, being simplke and.... Clear that it is also possible that for some reason kubrick had to hire a different person to double Mandy. Grains of sands, with all the shots of Mandy in the film are! ( 3 ) with the fully-clothed men, and with the fully-clothed men, nobody... -Thank Bog he 's put off Nirvana for so long `` orgy, '' were killers in!
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